Well, thank god a content creator, a voice in the hobby, someone louder than me has articulated what it feels with the glut of cross IP content.
I have mostly been an omni tcg player. I love it when IPs find their place in the tcg market with their own game rules, where mechanisms are interesting and tied closely to the theme.
I like mtg, I love its lore, and I enjoy it when someone at the table does something weird and almost nonsensical. But I've been playing against hobbits and the brotherhood of steel and they just take me out of the game this time. And I hate the feeling because I love lotr and fallout. I just don't want to play them in the same multiverse, they could (or are) so much more as different card games.
The argument MTG makes is they want to bring new players into the hobby. So it's precisely the people who don't currently spend the 💰💰 they claim to care about.
I've come to accept that this game is likely no longer for me as a new wave of players enter the game thanks to UB.
For all the shouting and complaining we do online and as loud as our voice is when these announcements are made, we appear to be the minority now when it comes to the profit that Hasbro and WOTC can make.
Simply saying "I want Magic the Gathering to be Magic the Gathering, not a pop culture pool of what's popular from other IPs" invokes responses of ridicule and contempt for "Ruining the fun of others." "Just let people enjoy things!" "The game still plays the same, so what's the problem?"
Why has it become so wrong to say that I do not want other brands planting their flags down and staking a claim in my own hobby?
I feel this current perception among many players who love UB that MTG is simply a rule set and design philosophy centered around the color pie that can be applied to anything if you want, completely overlooks everything about the game previously. MTG has its own history, its own universe, its own characters, its own style, its own feel to the cards, its own way of playing. All of the parts that made something a true part of the Magic the Gathering world.
Before UB, if someone presented a Spongebob or Captain America MTG card, we would all acknowledge that it it might be unique or have fitting mechanics that flavorfully represent the character, but that it had no place in the game. It was missing that fundamental piece of flavor that's so hard to describe, but that made it a true Magic the Gathering card, even if mechanically, it was no different from any other card. But now that flavor is lost. These UB cards are no different than the custom cards of those characters that our own community would make as a joke so many years ago.
Now here we are. Our game has been sold out to the highest bidder and become something unrecognizable, converted into a cheap pillar meant to prop up a dying company with mindless product consumption until the people at the top have prepared their golden parachutes and jumped off to the next thing they can ruin. My own local community is completely devastated these days as the older players, some of which who had been playing for 20+ years, have silently quit or retreated into personal playgroups that let them preserve the game they loved.
"Why has it become so wrong to say that I do not want other brands planting their flags down and staking a claim in my own hobby?" this is called Gate Keeping. Step down from your high horse and figure out that 20 Millions people paly this game, it's not all about you.
problem is the gatekeeping starts innocuous enough but soon it goes beyond excluding UB cards and goes on to start excluding certain kinds of people from the game as well(I.E. minorities, LGBTQ folks and women)
Your post reads like a caricature of the writings of the stereotypical “if you don’t like it you can hit the road!” mean spirited bullies who take joy in insulting long time fans of a franchise who are saddened to see its spirit morph into something they don’t know. Something commercial. Something based on money. Something cynical. I don’t know you, but you’re acting in a spirit of meanness to someone without taking the time to wonder what their perspective is, and typically, people who engage in that type of mindset play the victim, accusing those they are shoving out of the hobby of “gatekeeping.” WotC is forcing mtg players to play with these new cards. It’s not as simple as not buying them. But, people who hold the money you are projecting will continue to gaslight those of us who have an attachment to this game. Typical DARVO, typical cry bullying, typical self righteous meanness to a lot of older players who, let’s be honest, came into this game in the time is was a safe space for awkward rejects like many of them are.
It's OUR Hobby to. And the fact we want to use the very well built Mechanics of Magic the Gathering to play with Cards that have Different Art, really shouldn't be an issue.
Just go buy the non UB sets and quit being butt hurt that the rest of us get cool toys to play with that you don't like.
You see how you stated your opinion on the matter, with the conviction that you have every right to say it? While condemning him for doing the same exact thing just because you disagree? That’s what he’s talking about. And “oh just go buy the other sets if you don’t like our new stuff” that argument was perfectly valid until wizards decided that now every single format in the game has to include “your fun toys” I have nothing against you collecting and playing with you want, but there should be an avenue for everyone that doesn’t want to play with your stuff, especially since a couple years ago wizards promised *explicitly* that “your toys” would not be coming into standard and pioneer. Now they’re slotted to take up HALF of the entire format in rotations to come. No one’s asking for you to agree with us, but our opinions are just as valid as yours.
There's one argument he's missing here. UB has organically become a point of emphasis as products are selling orders of magnitude better because it's what The People ™️ (outside of the most concentrated fan communities like Reddit, X, Discord, w/e) actually want. Players want to screech and point fingers at "shareholders" and "investors" and "infinite growth fallacies" but it's not about them. It's a company responding to the actual wants of their customers who are voting with their wallets. The call is coming from inside the house; it's not corporate vs. the players, it's the desires of the silent supermajority vs. the loud longtime enfranchised players. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted, but you've been outvoted. Not by a guy in a suit, but from the guy across the table from you at your next pre-release.
I absolutely loathe the phrase "voting with their wallets." It implies some degree of equity across customers, when that simply does not exist. One person who is extremely interested in a specific set outweighs dozens who aren't. Would you characterize one person, buying a ton of LOTR booster packs on the off chance that he opens the One of One Ring so he can sell it to Post Malone, as "voting" in favor of the LOTR UB set? Does that one person's "vote" have the same weight as the vote of a person who was unhappy with LOTR UB and didn't buy into it at all? No, of course not.
You simply cannot point to revenue and say "this shows that this is what the playerbase as a whole wants." It doesn't prove anything like that. That kind of argument does not even attempt to consider WHO is buying a given set. You seem to think that success of UB is driven by people who you'll find sitting at the prerelease across the table from you; I do not believe that. The increased sales of these sets are not driven by Magic's fans, they're driven by fans of the things that have been shoved into Magic, who are only tangentially interested in Magic, and who very well may not stick around. I mean, what reason do they have to do so? What interest does a LOTR fan, who picked up LOTR magic booster packs, have in playing against characters from Fallout? Why should they? Those two settings are as tonally distinct from each other as they are from the rest of MTG.
This isn't "what the people want" it's what Wizards wants. They want to print money by tricking unsuspecting folks into buying into this "cool crossover!" when the game used to have a soul.
The books, the lore, even the flavor text painted a larger universe that you were seeing glimpses of in packs and regular play. I wanted to know what the deal with Urza was, and what was ahead for Gerard and his crew. Slivers were a wild concept and I wanted to discover how they were created and how they beached, sometimes finding dramatic irony in following along, due to the disjointed nature of the piecemeal stories.
Why not have the Simpsons involved? Why not soccer players? They really want to expand who the game appeals to and they'll surely be more interested when their favorite *non-MTG* element is finally added. They're already stripping away the metaphorical magic of the game, why not go hog wild. Get the LEGO crossover conversation started, why not? Why not have an entire series of LEGO-based expansions to explore their universe further, because they sure don't care about the MTG universe. The brand is already sullying itself, why not just cover everything? The Kitchen Nightmares crossover might at least provide an interesting concept. Why not get Olympians to have their own cards? Shoot, bring in Greek Olympians too, because why build your own universe when you can just use everyone else's?
LotR UB only sold as well as it did because it was a god damn slot machine for a 1 of 1 card. We can talk about metrics all day but we can't pretend they're representative of a healthy game.
And which customers would those be exactly? Because I don't consider resale scalpers, #investmentbros, or LGS's to be Magic PLAYERS. For the health of the game, and yes, to preserve the future value proposition of the Magic player audience to said sellers markets, the game must be designed for players first. A long-term, less spiky sales graph, is the only responsible option. There are no customers if Magic players abandon the game.
That must be why Bloomburrow sold better than any of the UB stuff, and why outside a few of these sets there haven't been reports of them outselling Standard Sets. Kind of sounds like the core Magic IP is much stronger when they aren't constantly shackled with cheap, kitschy gimmicks for sets and are allowed to actually develop their ideas!
Bloomburrow was so radically different from anything else in Magic to date it's all but a UB product. I don't say that as a bad thing. Yeah, WotC has had some in-universe banger sets; Kamigawa and Bloomburrow for sure. But what do both of those have in common? Very, VERY strong resonance with out-of-universe IPs (Redwall, all-of-anime). Even the sets that DO pop off are popular because they hook into appeals that exist outside of their IP's walls. Plus, for every set that sells incredibly well, there's a New Capenna / Karlov Manor. Again, this is the design team responding to what the players want, and what they don't.
No, it really wasn't - Lorwyn exists. Anthropomorphised animals is a fresh step for a plane, but it still uses resonant themes and aesthetics that still largely stays in the playground of Magic's confines, and even has a few nods to the wider universe without dragging in every face that could be plastered on marketing material in a manner that would cheapen the experience(hi Karlov Manor and Thunder Junction).
Why does holding some resemblance to other IPs in the same way that Lorwyn holds resemblances to folklore and mythmaking from the British Isles make it "Universes beyond" when it takes the basic concept and runs with it in a manner that's both evocative of classics like the Wind and the Willows or Narnia while having its own spin on things? Your argument betrays your position here, and completely disregards any of the actual substantive qualities of what makes these sets so strongly regarded beyond the surface aesthetics.
Karlov Manor sold badly because it actually was what you described Bloomburrow as - UB in all but name. It took established in-universe concepts and totally flanderized every character involved while watering down the setting with deeply unserious allusions to pop culturally accessible references - all while not being terribly fun to play.
Also, Kamigawa has fox-people, rat-people, and snake-people. Cat-people are a staple of multiple planes. Magic's had anthropomorphized animals as part of its toolkit since, what, Hurloon Minotaur? Bloomburrow is really not far removed from things Magic's done many times in the past.
Same old tired anti-UB argument as always. You're basically mad at anything that doesn't fit into a high fantasy box for Magic and then you make up sales statistics as evidence (Bloomburrow outsold LotR? What the hell are you talking about?)
It was the bestselling set of the last few years from what I'd been lead to believe. If I'm wrong, then fair enough.
On the other hand, if the only UB set to outsell Bloomburrow was the single largest and most enduring landmark in modern fantasy literature then I'm not really sure what that means for the faddish licences they're peddling.
Your argument is incoherent. Every Magic set has "resonance" with other IPs. OTJ relates to westerns. MKM is murder mysery. New Capenna is noir. Dominaria is Tolkien.
The key is the execution and novelty. Duskmourn seems to be well liked too despite some minor flaws and that's despite horror being a far more niche theme than "cute animals go on an adventure".
MKM suffered from lack of foreshadowing and explanations for the changes in the cards (most things made sense once you read the story, but most people didn't get that far) and OTJ suffered from a botched worldbuilding result of an unclear direction (it's both a cowboy and a heist set) and the pirouettes needed to depict the far west without ever acknowledging American colonialism (meanwhile, Spanish conquistadors are literal vampires on ixalan).
It is 100% about shareholders and the need to constantly make record profits each years "or else". That is and has been the core driver of Wizard's decisons for years now as that is how publicly traded companies function and survive. If you think the constant need to make record profits does not impact their every decision you are nothing short of delusional. Just because alot of people buy the product doesn't mean it's becauae they overwhelmingly enjoy seeing or want these IPs in magic. Often people want a specific chase card, want to play limited, or simply engage with the newest set despite the fact the would prefer that UB set was actually a in-universe set. Bloomburrow is a great example of that fact. And the low sales of many UB sets show that the direction UB is taking is overwhelming unpopular to the core fanbase of magic.
And you compeltely invalidated your own argument when talking about bloomburroe and Kamigawa. You literally gave examples of how magic is at its most popular, flavorful, and succesful when it creates IN UNIVERSE planes inspired by out of universe IPs. You are throwing out so many fallacies and justifications in your original post and subsequent response you are practically tripping over them at this point.
"voting with your wallet" is the biggest lie capitalist corpos spout, and unfortunately championed by people who think they're fighting against them when in reality, they are defending them.
People think that UB enjoyers are the silent majority, because for now they have been money wise, compared to the online vocal fans. The VASTLY larger silent majority are the already existing non vocal magic fans, that have also kept buying packs, but if enough other IP dilutes the soul of mtg, will quit the game.
Also what's the financial point long term of converting a spiderman fan, when they'll never get another spiderman set.
Not doing anything drastic like quitting the game, but UB entering standard is when I stop paying WOTC any money, which I've done plenty for the last 15+ years.
I think something worth remembering in the silent majority argument, is at least everyone I know that's bought them, did so because of the promise they would never hit standard.
I actually really like Spiderman but the idea of it being a full main set in magic that I will have to endure for 3+ years is just nauseating. I didn't come to Magic to play Spiderman, I came to play Magic. At least cross over with IPs that don't feel completely out of place.
It's not what people wanted. It's what gets pushed in their face.
Ofcourse it opens up a new demographic. But you could have reached them otherwise - invest in good quality storytelling and worldbuilding - then a netflix show, use high quality social media to tell the stories behind the cards, use influencer marketing to bring newcomers in, etc. The marketing strategies are almost infinite.
The decision to water down their own universe by spending money on licensing other franchises is just the easy risk-averse way.
Not the way a legacy game like MGT should have went - and needed to go. They could have done well (enough) on their own.
But greedy corporate capitalism got ahold of it...
I think mtg is too big to fail. So even if the old generation that cares about the original mtg universe fades away, as long as they pick up the newest trend, they stay relevant. It could also be, that they spend a ton of money and still can't move into the mainstream pop culture circle where marvel etc is, which is a risk.
Not that they needed that, but from that perspective it would be a risk to build upon your own universe and it's less risky to just use some popular franchises.
Going to go with a hard NOPE on this one. The company has NO idea what the players want and you can see that in Hasbros year to year growth. If the company was actually responding to the wants of the consumer, they would be putting forward growth statistics not loss statics. We haven't been outvoted and the company will continue to pay the price for their greed and disconnection. The true reality is, only Magic players will keep buying into MAGIC. The Dr.Who fan who bought into the Dr.Who set ISN'T buying the Warhammer set, the Anime fangirl set or showing up to the next prerelease because the next prerelease ISN'T their jam, it was the magic players jam. Hasbo is pissing into the wind and trying to collect as much money as they can before burning the whole house down.
As has been shown repeatedly throughout history, voting is the dumbest way of making decisions ever conceived by man. Every one of you who bought UB cards have destroyed the long term health of the game in return for shiny chase cards and the most vapid consumerism. Enjoy your advertisement in magic card form, which is all UB is, while you complain about wizards raising booster prices.
I hate the term "silent majority" for many reasons, but in this case in particular it's because it's the exact opposite of what you want in a fan. You want them loud and enthusiastic, constantly discussing your product online, dressing up at conventions, organizing events...
You don't want a silent majority that doesn't make any noise and appealing to it is a huge mistake. The silent majority might be the ones that buy your game, but the dedicated loud fans are the ones that actually keep it alive, the ones who become judges, the ones that actually got those silent people into magic.
What people want is often not what's good for them or even for the company making it. Giving in is like allowing a child to drink bleach just because they throw a tantrum otherwise. Trust and emotional investment are two other things that customers "pay with" and they are far more valuable than money because they can't be bought.
I think you're mostly right with one critical distinction. It's not the silent supermajority vs the loud longtime enfranchised players; it's the potential players vs the existing players. WotC has been open about how UB is a vehicle for creating new players. The Spongebob UB takes Spongebob fans, find the subset of potential MtG players, and adds them into the playerbase.
The reason the discourse is annoyance is because the discourse is existing players and not people who don't play. They don't want to see the franchise they enjoy get watered down to expand the playerbase. In fact, you can loosely interpret it as a microcosm of the classic immigration debate. People are open to growing their population but only if the newcomers assimilate. They fear that they'll lose the culture they grew up with and love. Of course, in the real world, no country is going to do the equivalent of what WotC did by turning half the sets to UB and delaying in-universe sets.
First, the "immigration debate" is bullshit, historically immigrants have been nothing but beneficial. They do not take people's jobs, they create more jobs and do those the locals refuse to.
The real debate this compares to is tourism and gentrification. And just ask any highly touristic place what they think about it. The reality is that is not just a loss of "culture" it's rebuilding the system to suit the needs of those who only are passing by. It creates a complete dependency on external sources of money and makes it impossible for those who actually live/play there to continue doing so.
It's a completely self destructive business model that creates money today at the expense of tomorrow.
and it never should have been. Yes, it’s more profitable, but the pursuit of profit will always outweigh any artistic merit if it’s pushed too far. Again, it’s incredibly frustrating as someone who likes UB and magic as it’s own IP, to see the signs of them kicking those original characters further and further from the spotlight, I’m completely torn because of these decisions they’ve announced.
A business can stay true to it's core. Especially if you already have a strong core. For MTG there was no need to go this way. It's just corporate greed that led to those decisions, not a need for it.
But now that WotC makes more money from UB that's more money to print more awesome sets like Foundations! Everything I see is Roughly the same amount of In universe cards coming out with MORE UB Cards. I don't think that's a bad thing.
CLB is an amazing set, WHO is fun to play with, LOTR is iconic.
Imagine WotC was Mcdonalds. This "UB" Argument is like saying:
"Oh did you see the new McCrispy sandwich?? That's not McDonalds! I'm never eating a Big Mac again!!!"
Like your big mac is still there.. it's still the same sandwich... still tastes exactly the same... so you're just mad cause they put a new item on the menu???
Kinda feels like Gate Keeping. "No! New players should have to know magics lore and its story and appriciate the art in order to start playing magic! these "new cards" are bull shit, back in my day MTG card HAD to be Fantasy cards that connected to the original lore, these kids these days have no idea what they are talking about"
I understand your point. But what if you play with your friends and have a beautiful original mtg deck and suddenly you need to play against Ironman. For someone like me, who was always drawn in by the "story" behind the card, the fantasy world building of mtg, it would definitely take away from the game.
It's like saying McDonalds suddenly make you eat Pasta instead of Burgers.
But I can understand your point, and maybe you can just stay within your Bubble and ignore the UB cards for the most part...
What I find sad, is that mtg already has a strong world, that they could have build upon and create characters as iconic as Ironman and such - but they missed this completely and now just go the easy way with other franchises.
It's like sitting on a gold mine full of gold, but down the road there is a stream that you can buy yourself into to find gold easily, so why do the hard work and dig for your gold on your own land...
In the end, that's what made mtg different from other games - that it's not just about playing, but that there is a story/world behind the game, that evolves with different sets, that we revisit again later, etc.
Exactly. They are already sitting on a gold mine. How about digging on your own ground...that would be way more rewarding...but means also more work...
I agree, but to add even more to what you have added, I also think that considering only the vast majority isn't always the safest. To use a slightly exaggerated example, let's say wizards has two options in front of them.
Option one is to release a new magic set. One that 40% of the fan base wants, 40% would be indifferent and 20% would be frustrated.
Option two is to release a new UB set that would make 60% of the fan base happy, 5% would be indifferent, and 35% would be frustrated.
It seems like wizards argument these days is that they will always choose whatever is the popular vote, even if that vote has the additional fact of having more angry players.
Personally I don't know if it's worth chasing that metric at the expense of the players it frustrates.
Ultimately I'm indifferent. I think it's exciting, but I would also be just as excited for new normal magic stuff.
It’s not even that. It’s closer to products that 10% want, 85% don’t want, and 5% will leave the game over. It’s a net win until the ‘don’t want’s stop putting up with it.
I've honestly been on board with UB since the beginning (in concept, if not always in execution). Although, in all honesty, it's mostly because I've long since lost all attachment to Magic's "original universe" anyway. I don't care about Spiderman, or Dr Who, or...Mr Assassinscreed. But I also don't care about Jace, or Chandra, or Kellan, so what does it matter to me whose face they print on the cardboard?
But you know what I do like? Fantasy. In particular the strong, traditional high fantasy aesthetic that first drew me into the game nearly two and a half decades ago. I may not care about the boring characters or the asinine plot, but I can still get absorbed in a world of magic and adventure, where dazzling sorcery and amazing monsters lurk around every corner. I don't care about Ral or what he's doing in Bloomburrow, but Bloomburrow is still such a cool world to explore, even if just through the snapshots of card art. I may actively despise Liliana as a character, but I can still enjoy the design and visuals of a cool necromancer.
And honestly, if UB was restricted to franchises that actually gelled more with that fantasy aesthetic which used to be so fundamental to Magic's identity all those years ago (which it really was, despite what some people, Maro included, like to insist), I might be more on board. More LotR and DnD, less Marvel and Dr Who. Spongebob is just embarrassing.
But with Magic's own aesthetic skewing further and further away from that style and so many UB properties that don't even begin to try making up for it, I just...don't know why I should bother.
The worst part is the complete destruction of trust. Maro used to try mollifying UB detractors (which, again, I was not among) by telling them that UB was purely additive, that it wasn't taking away anything they love, only giving something to other fans. The last time he used that line was less than a week before the announcement that actually no, it literally was taking stuff away now. One of the most long-awaited returns shoved back so they can push more and more Marvel slop in our faces, and a yearly plan to cut down on actual Magic releases in favour of more UB. Less than a week. There is no way in the nine hells he didn't know about this when he tried telling people it was "purely additive", so how is that anything but an actual factual bald-faced lie? An attempt to briefly pacify complainers in the hopes that they'd grow numb enough to accept it before this announcement came? How can we trust a single word anyone at WotC says on the matter now?
If people want Spiderman, they can get Spiderman. Marvel is god damn EVERYWHERE. Thirteen movies every month, twenty eight TV shows every week, games, merch - I hear they're even printing comics now. But if they want to explore Bloomburrow, or see what Jace is up to, or discover (or rediscover) what happened to the Eldrazi, there is one and only one place they can go to for that. And WotC has just announced that they're shrinking that space in favour of pushing even MORE. DAMN. SPIDERMAN.
welp, i’ve been looking to get into cube making for a while and this announcement seems to be a pretty good motivator to start. any good resources out there you’d recommend?
Heya, been keeping an eye on cube for the last 4-5 years. First and foremost, check out cubecobra.com, it's the list-sharing site & also directs you to other resources such as podcasts and articles. Solely Singleton is excellent (though crass) for getting your feet in the water. They are the most basic cube podcast imo. Check out their starter/miser cube episodes, the rest are relatively disregard-able.
Lucky Paper Radio is the premier podcast for cube, they attempt to highlight cube (in stark contrast to solely singleton) as more than just a set of 360 or 450 cards, but rather utilizing the game pieces/engine to create your own radical experience.
If you just want general draft pointers, which might help highlight play patterns you enjoy, Lords of Limited release a weekly, standard draft-focused podcast.
I googled lots of different things to try and figure out what to do. I picked 10 multicolour supporting archtypes and stuck in my favourite cards to support it. Honestly? Just pick something that sounds cool and try building around it.
It is indeed the serpent eating its own tail. Just look at how Magic started and what Rhystic Studies itself described in the video about flavor text. TLDR Magic had to stop using quotations from literature as flavor text because it had to establish its own identity. Today the literature as flavor text has become IP's as full on sets of cards. Early Magic had to grow its own identity. Now Magic's identity is getting swallowed by its own growth (the certain six letter c word comes to mind).
Perhaps that is just inevitability. If so I think its time that Magic R&D stands up against it. Before it all snaps, that is.
The entire core of the article, which you did not read, addresses your handwave. It is almost as if, making the game a vehicle for other IP's and putting its own IP on the backburner is solipsistic.
I truly can't wait to cast my 4BB Sephiroth that edicts on summon, or my 2WR Cloud that summons a "Buster Blade" equipment that equips on summon. Then I can't wait to cast Spiderman for 2R who on summon taps(or even stuns) target creature.
Man it will be so cool to see the Finalfantasy deck versus the spiderman deck. How many spidermen do you think a meta spiderman deck will have? I imagine it has atleast 4x of 3 different spidermen; can't neglect to have all of the 340343 versions of him from the comics and surely atleast 3 of them will be good in an archetype together.
It is 100% correct to talk negatively to people who have the idea of "hah imagine getting mad that someone might like a thing". It's a thoughtless take. People like all sorts of things that are contemptable.
Universes Beyond is the worst of the modern amalgamation of "Nerd Culture". It's literally "heres slop you'll like we mixed with other slop you like, eat up piggies".
This won't kill magic, but it surely is a mortal wound to its integrity.
only thing "braindead" and "contemptible" here are your lame-ass posts, i gave your pathetic elitist gatekeeping screed exactly as much respect as it deserved.
The analogy of Magic to Funko Pops was perfect. It’s such a shame that a game with such a rich history, and basis in incredible art has been sold at the auction block to the cheapest buyer.
I don’t know how anyone can defend the management at WOTC anymore, these people don’t care about the brand. It’s the cult of personality and they’ve all drank the “we’re the best” kool-aid. Im truly curious if anyone on the inside even challenges these ideas.
It seems I’m beset by rampant corporate greed with whatever nerd hobby I indulge in, but at least when I play 40K I don’t have to play against the collaboration Mario army. Somehow they manage to continually invest in their brand and not against it.
I don’t see Magic completely dying off, but I do see its relevancy and impact diminishing heavily in the coming years. Maybe that’s a good thing.
You think for 2 seconds if Warhammer could get licensing for these other IP's at reasonable Long term rates they wouldn't do the exact same thing??? Oh man...
If you think for two seconds games workshop would print Spider-Man into 40K you’re clearly disillusioned with the hobby. They are the complete and total #1 in wargaming and it’s not close. In fact marvel has their own tabletop game, and crazily enough it’s not even remotely a threat to GWs market share, because they have built up and maintained a strong setting with continuous work, NOT by giving other companies advertising pieces within their game system.
I’ve had to accept that this isn’t the game I fell in love with anymore. I actually like UB stuff, that’s the sad thing, but having no way to escape it, having it in every single format and now half of all releases puts me into a place where I have no faith in the game anymore.
I want to love the story of magic, I want to care about its characters, and all I’m seeing is reason to fear there won’t be any soon. My best guess? They’ll wipe all the planes away with a story, push UB till the world doesn’t care about that novelty, then reboot the story like comics do. But am I willing to stay through it all? I don’t know.
Frankly, I've given up on the story long ago. I got into the game around Time Spiral and the story and worldbuilding quality was mostly great until Innistrad. But by mid 2010s everything started completely revolving around the same crew of planeswalkers saving the multiverse from the Existential Threat of the Week. Previously unstoppable Eldrazi were defeated with the power of friendship and lasers, Phyrexians showed remarkable strategic genius by attacking all planes at once, planeswalkers came back from the dead... There's no stakes anymore, and every "Return to X" set is mostly meh.
Since Wizards dropped the block structure and cranked release frequency to 11, there's no space for a story to evolve, it's all one endless spoiler season, as though they're afraid we'll forget the game if they stop the printer for a minute.
You could say it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, to get more money they changed from blocks to a wider set of planes, leading to people becoming detached from the characters, which led to their gimmick of UB becoming their crutch. Funny thing about a crutch though, it can save your life, but become dependent on it for too long and it will make you weaker.
Make a Comic, Make a Animated Series, Make a Video Game in the World of MTG.
People would know there is a story going on.
I've played magic for 14 years and not till everyone started crying about "UB IS RUINING THE STORY" did i even know there WAS a story!
I play magic becuase It's a GOOD CARD GAME, not becuase I'm married to the characters or the story.
It's a Solid CARD GAME with GOOD MECHANICS. No Art Style or Inclusion of other IPs will ever change the fact that IT PLAYS WELL.
The Draw of MTG (to me) is that:
I can get off my computer go meet some people and play a game with them.
Human Social Interaction. That's the most importat aspect of MTG in my life.
Now with UB Sets I have friends that would never even LOOK at magic cards playing becuase they were like "What's this new Assassins creed game you've got", or "hey what's this LOTR box you've got?"
Players who either would have never tried magic or even looked at magic got interetested and my base of friends who play MTG has grown, Significantly, Due to UB. It gives you cool cards to talk about and makes the game RELATABLE to players who don't know a thing about MTG.
I’m actually a fan of UB stuff to be honest, like the stuff next year has me excited. I just think having it in every format is a step too far, having a space where it doesn’t show up is nice for the times when someone wants that. Beyond cube and niche formats few have heard of there’s no real way to play magic without UB now.
Edit: forgot to say I agree with the main reason to play magic being social, end of the day I’d be happy to sub it out for anything that gets me to hang with people the same way.
I don't think Magic will ever die die, at least not anytime soon, but spiritually I think it's dead. Probably has been for a while, really. I've been out of the game for a little while now but with outside IP now encroaching on the previously sacred Standard card pool (and by extension, my favorite format Pioneer) I don't see myself ever coming back in earnest. Aside from cubing, cube is the best, and you should all get into it.
I have been playing since i was 12, im 35 right now, at first the lore captivated me because it was so unique, every plane has something to offer, the mechanics were in tune with the planes and they felt like part of a whole identity. Now with the ips they feel like a medium age crisis, some like lotr feel in tune with a plane of magic not to mention D&D, even the ones like warhammer worked because there was variety in the races of such universe. But in the case of doctor who, dont seem to translate as naturaly as other ips, the same for fallout and now marvel. I really hate secret lairs but until now i find a purpose as expensive skins in an already expensive game, but now a whole expansion of spiderman? I like spiderman but i dont feel it as deserve to share the "Magic" name, why dont the change the name only as "the gathering" because rite now is a gathering of nonsense ips. Maybe in the lore of marvel there are elves, elementals, demons and other fantasy elements, but all seem to be centered in a "human" theme.
I like that magic its now popular, but i hate thats popular for its crossovers rather than the lore of the original game. Magic lore ended when the phyrexian crisis was met with an anticlimatic ending, when they feared to kill other planeswalkers.
I've been playing since 14 (34 now) Not until people started crying about Walking Dead did I even know ther was a story to MTG... It's not like they do a good job advertising that fact or giving you anything to go on besides maybe a line of lore text on the cards.
Print a book, a comic, make a video game, tv series, animated shorts. Do ANYTHING to promote the universe of MTG cause I swear unless you go looking for it, it is not delivered to you.
Look, you already won. Let us who lost something mourn it a little.
You are getting what you want. The folks who are not are complaining. If in 3 years WotC announces "UB was a mistake and we're not doing it anymore" I promise you I will not be going into articles talking about how sad that is to explain why it's actually awesome.
I get that you're frustrated by the negativity here, but you won't have to be for much longer, because the people who have overwhelmingly negative feelings about this aren't going to play the game anymore. At least not in any context where you'd ever encounter them at FNM.
The game died for me when commander became #1. That is not how I like to play magic. But I always had an inkling I'd come back some day. Now the thing I'd want to come back to resembles what I loved even less, so I don't think I will.
You're fully allowed to like this, it's just... you're commenting on something that you have fully, 100% gotten what you wanted out of it. People not being happy about this change doesn't make the change not happen.
Great article! I truly do love magic and the world it has created. I have been a vorthos for years and year but they seem determined to take away the part of magic that was special to me.
Nothing feels off the table. The only reason why I can't see a hot wheels crossover in the death race set is because they're owned by a direct competitor. Richard Garfield but it's Garfield the cat is a possibility. The Cthulhu set feels like an inevitability.
Oddly, because much of Lovecraft's stories are already public domain (and I think the rest are plausibly in the public domain too), Wizards could just make a Cthulhu set without having to "collaborate" with anyone. Though it would be hard to come up with an artistic rendition of Cthulhu that doesn't rub up against art owned by Chaosium.
Well, thank god a content creator, a voice in the hobby, someone louder than me has articulated what it feels with the glut of cross IP content.
I have mostly been an omni tcg player. I love it when IPs find their place in the tcg market with their own game rules, where mechanisms are interesting and tied closely to the theme.
I like mtg, I love its lore, and I enjoy it when someone at the table does something weird and almost nonsensical. But I've been playing against hobbits and the brotherhood of steel and they just take me out of the game this time. And I hate the feeling because I love lotr and fallout. I just don't want to play them in the same multiverse, they could (or are) so much more as different card games.
But you don't spend the 💰💰so they don't care 😘
The argument MTG makes is they want to bring new players into the hobby. So it's precisely the people who don't currently spend the 💰💰 they claim to care about.
I've come to accept that this game is likely no longer for me as a new wave of players enter the game thanks to UB.
For all the shouting and complaining we do online and as loud as our voice is when these announcements are made, we appear to be the minority now when it comes to the profit that Hasbro and WOTC can make.
Simply saying "I want Magic the Gathering to be Magic the Gathering, not a pop culture pool of what's popular from other IPs" invokes responses of ridicule and contempt for "Ruining the fun of others." "Just let people enjoy things!" "The game still plays the same, so what's the problem?"
Why has it become so wrong to say that I do not want other brands planting their flags down and staking a claim in my own hobby?
I feel this current perception among many players who love UB that MTG is simply a rule set and design philosophy centered around the color pie that can be applied to anything if you want, completely overlooks everything about the game previously. MTG has its own history, its own universe, its own characters, its own style, its own feel to the cards, its own way of playing. All of the parts that made something a true part of the Magic the Gathering world.
Before UB, if someone presented a Spongebob or Captain America MTG card, we would all acknowledge that it it might be unique or have fitting mechanics that flavorfully represent the character, but that it had no place in the game. It was missing that fundamental piece of flavor that's so hard to describe, but that made it a true Magic the Gathering card, even if mechanically, it was no different from any other card. But now that flavor is lost. These UB cards are no different than the custom cards of those characters that our own community would make as a joke so many years ago.
Now here we are. Our game has been sold out to the highest bidder and become something unrecognizable, converted into a cheap pillar meant to prop up a dying company with mindless product consumption until the people at the top have prepared their golden parachutes and jumped off to the next thing they can ruin. My own local community is completely devastated these days as the older players, some of which who had been playing for 20+ years, have silently quit or retreated into personal playgroups that let them preserve the game they loved.
Perhaps it is finally time to join them.
"Why has it become so wrong to say that I do not want other brands planting their flags down and staking a claim in my own hobby?" this is called Gate Keeping. Step down from your high horse and figure out that 20 Millions people paly this game, it's not all about you.
You're talking about gatekeeping as if that's a bad thing.
Gatekeeping is about maintaining something that you love pure, untainted by outsider who don't understand its soul.
In fact we should've gatekept harder
problem is the gatekeeping starts innocuous enough but soon it goes beyond excluding UB cards and goes on to start excluding certain kinds of people from the game as well(I.E. minorities, LGBTQ folks and women)
Your post reads like a caricature of the writings of the stereotypical “if you don’t like it you can hit the road!” mean spirited bullies who take joy in insulting long time fans of a franchise who are saddened to see its spirit morph into something they don’t know. Something commercial. Something based on money. Something cynical. I don’t know you, but you’re acting in a spirit of meanness to someone without taking the time to wonder what their perspective is, and typically, people who engage in that type of mindset play the victim, accusing those they are shoving out of the hobby of “gatekeeping.” WotC is forcing mtg players to play with these new cards. It’s not as simple as not buying them. But, people who hold the money you are projecting will continue to gaslight those of us who have an attachment to this game. Typical DARVO, typical cry bullying, typical self righteous meanness to a lot of older players who, let’s be honest, came into this game in the time is was a safe space for awkward rejects like many of them are.
It's OUR Hobby to. And the fact we want to use the very well built Mechanics of Magic the Gathering to play with Cards that have Different Art, really shouldn't be an issue.
Just go buy the non UB sets and quit being butt hurt that the rest of us get cool toys to play with that you don't like.
You see how you stated your opinion on the matter, with the conviction that you have every right to say it? While condemning him for doing the same exact thing just because you disagree? That’s what he’s talking about. And “oh just go buy the other sets if you don’t like our new stuff” that argument was perfectly valid until wizards decided that now every single format in the game has to include “your fun toys” I have nothing against you collecting and playing with you want, but there should be an avenue for everyone that doesn’t want to play with your stuff, especially since a couple years ago wizards promised *explicitly* that “your toys” would not be coming into standard and pioneer. Now they’re slotted to take up HALF of the entire format in rotations to come. No one’s asking for you to agree with us, but our opinions are just as valid as yours.
well said
There's one argument he's missing here. UB has organically become a point of emphasis as products are selling orders of magnitude better because it's what The People ™️ (outside of the most concentrated fan communities like Reddit, X, Discord, w/e) actually want. Players want to screech and point fingers at "shareholders" and "investors" and "infinite growth fallacies" but it's not about them. It's a company responding to the actual wants of their customers who are voting with their wallets. The call is coming from inside the house; it's not corporate vs. the players, it's the desires of the silent supermajority vs. the loud longtime enfranchised players. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted, but you've been outvoted. Not by a guy in a suit, but from the guy across the table from you at your next pre-release.
I absolutely loathe the phrase "voting with their wallets." It implies some degree of equity across customers, when that simply does not exist. One person who is extremely interested in a specific set outweighs dozens who aren't. Would you characterize one person, buying a ton of LOTR booster packs on the off chance that he opens the One of One Ring so he can sell it to Post Malone, as "voting" in favor of the LOTR UB set? Does that one person's "vote" have the same weight as the vote of a person who was unhappy with LOTR UB and didn't buy into it at all? No, of course not.
You simply cannot point to revenue and say "this shows that this is what the playerbase as a whole wants." It doesn't prove anything like that. That kind of argument does not even attempt to consider WHO is buying a given set. You seem to think that success of UB is driven by people who you'll find sitting at the prerelease across the table from you; I do not believe that. The increased sales of these sets are not driven by Magic's fans, they're driven by fans of the things that have been shoved into Magic, who are only tangentially interested in Magic, and who very well may not stick around. I mean, what reason do they have to do so? What interest does a LOTR fan, who picked up LOTR magic booster packs, have in playing against characters from Fallout? Why should they? Those two settings are as tonally distinct from each other as they are from the rest of MTG.
This isn't "what the people want" it's what Wizards wants. They want to print money by tricking unsuspecting folks into buying into this "cool crossover!" when the game used to have a soul.
The books, the lore, even the flavor text painted a larger universe that you were seeing glimpses of in packs and regular play. I wanted to know what the deal with Urza was, and what was ahead for Gerard and his crew. Slivers were a wild concept and I wanted to discover how they were created and how they beached, sometimes finding dramatic irony in following along, due to the disjointed nature of the piecemeal stories.
Why not have the Simpsons involved? Why not soccer players? They really want to expand who the game appeals to and they'll surely be more interested when their favorite *non-MTG* element is finally added. They're already stripping away the metaphorical magic of the game, why not go hog wild. Get the LEGO crossover conversation started, why not? Why not have an entire series of LEGO-based expansions to explore their universe further, because they sure don't care about the MTG universe. The brand is already sullying itself, why not just cover everything? The Kitchen Nightmares crossover might at least provide an interesting concept. Why not get Olympians to have their own cards? Shoot, bring in Greek Olympians too, because why build your own universe when you can just use everyone else's?
LotR UB only sold as well as it did because it was a god damn slot machine for a 1 of 1 card. We can talk about metrics all day but we can't pretend they're representative of a healthy game.
'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'
As if that weren't enough, there's an inherent measurability bias in statistics. Money is easy to calculate, player burnout is not.
Collectors box just hit all time highs and the 1:1 has already been pulled......
These wonka bars still contain smaller golden tickets.
And which customers would those be exactly? Because I don't consider resale scalpers, #investmentbros, or LGS's to be Magic PLAYERS. For the health of the game, and yes, to preserve the future value proposition of the Magic player audience to said sellers markets, the game must be designed for players first. A long-term, less spiky sales graph, is the only responsible option. There are no customers if Magic players abandon the game.
That must be why Bloomburrow sold better than any of the UB stuff, and why outside a few of these sets there haven't been reports of them outselling Standard Sets. Kind of sounds like the core Magic IP is much stronger when they aren't constantly shackled with cheap, kitschy gimmicks for sets and are allowed to actually develop their ideas!
Bloomburrow was so radically different from anything else in Magic to date it's all but a UB product. I don't say that as a bad thing. Yeah, WotC has had some in-universe banger sets; Kamigawa and Bloomburrow for sure. But what do both of those have in common? Very, VERY strong resonance with out-of-universe IPs (Redwall, all-of-anime). Even the sets that DO pop off are popular because they hook into appeals that exist outside of their IP's walls. Plus, for every set that sells incredibly well, there's a New Capenna / Karlov Manor. Again, this is the design team responding to what the players want, and what they don't.
No, it really wasn't - Lorwyn exists. Anthropomorphised animals is a fresh step for a plane, but it still uses resonant themes and aesthetics that still largely stays in the playground of Magic's confines, and even has a few nods to the wider universe without dragging in every face that could be plastered on marketing material in a manner that would cheapen the experience(hi Karlov Manor and Thunder Junction).
Why does holding some resemblance to other IPs in the same way that Lorwyn holds resemblances to folklore and mythmaking from the British Isles make it "Universes beyond" when it takes the basic concept and runs with it in a manner that's both evocative of classics like the Wind and the Willows or Narnia while having its own spin on things? Your argument betrays your position here, and completely disregards any of the actual substantive qualities of what makes these sets so strongly regarded beyond the surface aesthetics.
Karlov Manor sold badly because it actually was what you described Bloomburrow as - UB in all but name. It took established in-universe concepts and totally flanderized every character involved while watering down the setting with deeply unserious allusions to pop culturally accessible references - all while not being terribly fun to play.
Also, Kamigawa has fox-people, rat-people, and snake-people. Cat-people are a staple of multiple planes. Magic's had anthropomorphized animals as part of its toolkit since, what, Hurloon Minotaur? Bloomburrow is really not far removed from things Magic's done many times in the past.
Same old tired anti-UB argument as always. You're basically mad at anything that doesn't fit into a high fantasy box for Magic and then you make up sales statistics as evidence (Bloomburrow outsold LotR? What the hell are you talking about?)
It was the bestselling set of the last few years from what I'd been lead to believe. If I'm wrong, then fair enough.
On the other hand, if the only UB set to outsell Bloomburrow was the single largest and most enduring landmark in modern fantasy literature then I'm not really sure what that means for the faddish licences they're peddling.
Your argument is incoherent. Every Magic set has "resonance" with other IPs. OTJ relates to westerns. MKM is murder mysery. New Capenna is noir. Dominaria is Tolkien.
The key is the execution and novelty. Duskmourn seems to be well liked too despite some minor flaws and that's despite horror being a far more niche theme than "cute animals go on an adventure".
MKM suffered from lack of foreshadowing and explanations for the changes in the cards (most things made sense once you read the story, but most people didn't get that far) and OTJ suffered from a botched worldbuilding result of an unclear direction (it's both a cowboy and a heist set) and the pirouettes needed to depict the far west without ever acknowledging American colonialism (meanwhile, Spanish conquistadors are literal vampires on ixalan).
It is 100% about shareholders and the need to constantly make record profits each years "or else". That is and has been the core driver of Wizard's decisons for years now as that is how publicly traded companies function and survive. If you think the constant need to make record profits does not impact their every decision you are nothing short of delusional. Just because alot of people buy the product doesn't mean it's becauae they overwhelmingly enjoy seeing or want these IPs in magic. Often people want a specific chase card, want to play limited, or simply engage with the newest set despite the fact the would prefer that UB set was actually a in-universe set. Bloomburrow is a great example of that fact. And the low sales of many UB sets show that the direction UB is taking is overwhelming unpopular to the core fanbase of magic.
And you compeltely invalidated your own argument when talking about bloomburroe and Kamigawa. You literally gave examples of how magic is at its most popular, flavorful, and succesful when it creates IN UNIVERSE planes inspired by out of universe IPs. You are throwing out so many fallacies and justifications in your original post and subsequent response you are practically tripping over them at this point.
"voting with your wallet" is the biggest lie capitalist corpos spout, and unfortunately championed by people who think they're fighting against them when in reality, they are defending them.
When the wallets aren't equal, neither are the votes.
People think that UB enjoyers are the silent majority, because for now they have been money wise, compared to the online vocal fans. The VASTLY larger silent majority are the already existing non vocal magic fans, that have also kept buying packs, but if enough other IP dilutes the soul of mtg, will quit the game.
Also what's the financial point long term of converting a spiderman fan, when they'll never get another spiderman set.
Not doing anything drastic like quitting the game, but UB entering standard is when I stop paying WOTC any money, which I've done plenty for the last 15+ years.
I think something worth remembering in the silent majority argument, is at least everyone I know that's bought them, did so because of the promise they would never hit standard.
I actually really like Spiderman but the idea of it being a full main set in magic that I will have to endure for 3+ years is just nauseating. I didn't come to Magic to play Spiderman, I came to play Magic. At least cross over with IPs that don't feel completely out of place.
It's not what people wanted. It's what gets pushed in their face.
Ofcourse it opens up a new demographic. But you could have reached them otherwise - invest in good quality storytelling and worldbuilding - then a netflix show, use high quality social media to tell the stories behind the cards, use influencer marketing to bring newcomers in, etc. The marketing strategies are almost infinite.
The decision to water down their own universe by spending money on licensing other franchises is just the easy risk-averse way.
Not the way a legacy game like MGT should have went - and needed to go. They could have done well (enough) on their own.
But greedy corporate capitalism got ahold of it...
It's actually extremely risky, but not on the short term, so the investors don't care. They will just dip the moment it goes sour.
I think mtg is too big to fail. So even if the old generation that cares about the original mtg universe fades away, as long as they pick up the newest trend, they stay relevant. It could also be, that they spend a ton of money and still can't move into the mainstream pop culture circle where marvel etc is, which is a risk.
Not that they needed that, but from that perspective it would be a risk to build upon your own universe and it's less risky to just use some popular franchises.
Going to go with a hard NOPE on this one. The company has NO idea what the players want and you can see that in Hasbros year to year growth. If the company was actually responding to the wants of the consumer, they would be putting forward growth statistics not loss statics. We haven't been outvoted and the company will continue to pay the price for their greed and disconnection. The true reality is, only Magic players will keep buying into MAGIC. The Dr.Who fan who bought into the Dr.Who set ISN'T buying the Warhammer set, the Anime fangirl set or showing up to the next prerelease because the next prerelease ISN'T their jam, it was the magic players jam. Hasbo is pissing into the wind and trying to collect as much money as they can before burning the whole house down.
Now comes in a new question, how do you keep the guy across the table invested in Magic?
As has been shown repeatedly throughout history, voting is the dumbest way of making decisions ever conceived by man. Every one of you who bought UB cards have destroyed the long term health of the game in return for shiny chase cards and the most vapid consumerism. Enjoy your advertisement in magic card form, which is all UB is, while you complain about wizards raising booster prices.
I hate the term "silent majority" for many reasons, but in this case in particular it's because it's the exact opposite of what you want in a fan. You want them loud and enthusiastic, constantly discussing your product online, dressing up at conventions, organizing events...
You don't want a silent majority that doesn't make any noise and appealing to it is a huge mistake. The silent majority might be the ones that buy your game, but the dedicated loud fans are the ones that actually keep it alive, the ones who become judges, the ones that actually got those silent people into magic.
What people want is often not what's good for them or even for the company making it. Giving in is like allowing a child to drink bleach just because they throw a tantrum otherwise. Trust and emotional investment are two other things that customers "pay with" and they are far more valuable than money because they can't be bought.
comparing people buying UB sets to drinking bleach? wow talk about a dumbass comparison LOL
I think you're mostly right with one critical distinction. It's not the silent supermajority vs the loud longtime enfranchised players; it's the potential players vs the existing players. WotC has been open about how UB is a vehicle for creating new players. The Spongebob UB takes Spongebob fans, find the subset of potential MtG players, and adds them into the playerbase.
The reason the discourse is annoyance is because the discourse is existing players and not people who don't play. They don't want to see the franchise they enjoy get watered down to expand the playerbase. In fact, you can loosely interpret it as a microcosm of the classic immigration debate. People are open to growing their population but only if the newcomers assimilate. They fear that they'll lose the culture they grew up with and love. Of course, in the real world, no country is going to do the equivalent of what WotC did by turning half the sets to UB and delaying in-universe sets.
You're wrong on so many levels...
First, the "immigration debate" is bullshit, historically immigrants have been nothing but beneficial. They do not take people's jobs, they create more jobs and do those the locals refuse to.
The real debate this compares to is tourism and gentrification. And just ask any highly touristic place what they think about it. The reality is that is not just a loss of "culture" it's rebuilding the system to suit the needs of those who only are passing by. It creates a complete dependency on external sources of money and makes it impossible for those who actually live/play there to continue doing so.
It's a completely self destructive business model that creates money today at the expense of tomorrow.
Oh look it’s Rosewater’s burner
grow up Alex Jones
Sad thing is, you're right too. This is a popularity contest, and universes beyond won it hard.
and it never should have been. Yes, it’s more profitable, but the pursuit of profit will always outweigh any artistic merit if it’s pushed too far. Again, it’s incredibly frustrating as someone who likes UB and magic as it’s own IP, to see the signs of them kicking those original characters further and further from the spotlight, I’m completely torn because of these decisions they’ve announced.
Wow, did you just discover that Magic is a business?
A business can stay true to it's core. Especially if you already have a strong core. For MTG there was no need to go this way. It's just corporate greed that led to those decisions, not a need for it.
But now that WotC makes more money from UB that's more money to print more awesome sets like Foundations! Everything I see is Roughly the same amount of In universe cards coming out with MORE UB Cards. I don't think that's a bad thing.
CLB is an amazing set, WHO is fun to play with, LOTR is iconic.
Imagine WotC was Mcdonalds. This "UB" Argument is like saying:
"Oh did you see the new McCrispy sandwich?? That's not McDonalds! I'm never eating a Big Mac again!!!"
Like your big mac is still there.. it's still the same sandwich... still tastes exactly the same... so you're just mad cause they put a new item on the menu???
Kinda feels like Gate Keeping. "No! New players should have to know magics lore and its story and appriciate the art in order to start playing magic! these "new cards" are bull shit, back in my day MTG card HAD to be Fantasy cards that connected to the original lore, these kids these days have no idea what they are talking about"
I understand your point. But what if you play with your friends and have a beautiful original mtg deck and suddenly you need to play against Ironman. For someone like me, who was always drawn in by the "story" behind the card, the fantasy world building of mtg, it would definitely take away from the game.
It's like saying McDonalds suddenly make you eat Pasta instead of Burgers.
But I can understand your point, and maybe you can just stay within your Bubble and ignore the UB cards for the most part...
What I find sad, is that mtg already has a strong world, that they could have build upon and create characters as iconic as Ironman and such - but they missed this completely and now just go the easy way with other franchises.
It's like sitting on a gold mine full of gold, but down the road there is a stream that you can buy yourself into to find gold easily, so why do the hard work and dig for your gold on your own land...
In the end, that's what made mtg different from other games - that it's not just about playing, but that there is a story/world behind the game, that evolves with different sets, that we revisit again later, etc.
Well it’s a good thing businesses don’t have to worry about Brand Identity, Public Reputation, or Customer Loyalty.
when you think businesses only exist to make money and nothing else matters.
Ah yes, Magic. That game famous for not being able to make money on its own without relying on external IPs.
Exactly. They are already sitting on a gold mine. How about digging on your own ground...that would be way more rewarding...but means also more work...
I agree, but to add even more to what you have added, I also think that considering only the vast majority isn't always the safest. To use a slightly exaggerated example, let's say wizards has two options in front of them.
Option one is to release a new magic set. One that 40% of the fan base wants, 40% would be indifferent and 20% would be frustrated.
Option two is to release a new UB set that would make 60% of the fan base happy, 5% would be indifferent, and 35% would be frustrated.
It seems like wizards argument these days is that they will always choose whatever is the popular vote, even if that vote has the additional fact of having more angry players.
Personally I don't know if it's worth chasing that metric at the expense of the players it frustrates.
Ultimately I'm indifferent. I think it's exciting, but I would also be just as excited for new normal magic stuff.
It’s not even that. It’s closer to products that 10% want, 85% don’t want, and 5% will leave the game over. It’s a net win until the ‘don’t want’s stop putting up with it.
There's no promise WotC will make that won't be broken in a couple years.
except the reserve list
That one took 30 instead.
well, there is the reserved list.
Cards have come off it multiple times. They want to break it, just very slowly.
i wish they would, honestly the reserve list was IMO a dumb concept to begin with and it's long outlived whatever use it once had.
I've honestly been on board with UB since the beginning (in concept, if not always in execution). Although, in all honesty, it's mostly because I've long since lost all attachment to Magic's "original universe" anyway. I don't care about Spiderman, or Dr Who, or...Mr Assassinscreed. But I also don't care about Jace, or Chandra, or Kellan, so what does it matter to me whose face they print on the cardboard?
But you know what I do like? Fantasy. In particular the strong, traditional high fantasy aesthetic that first drew me into the game nearly two and a half decades ago. I may not care about the boring characters or the asinine plot, but I can still get absorbed in a world of magic and adventure, where dazzling sorcery and amazing monsters lurk around every corner. I don't care about Ral or what he's doing in Bloomburrow, but Bloomburrow is still such a cool world to explore, even if just through the snapshots of card art. I may actively despise Liliana as a character, but I can still enjoy the design and visuals of a cool necromancer.
And honestly, if UB was restricted to franchises that actually gelled more with that fantasy aesthetic which used to be so fundamental to Magic's identity all those years ago (which it really was, despite what some people, Maro included, like to insist), I might be more on board. More LotR and DnD, less Marvel and Dr Who. Spongebob is just embarrassing.
But with Magic's own aesthetic skewing further and further away from that style and so many UB properties that don't even begin to try making up for it, I just...don't know why I should bother.
The worst part is the complete destruction of trust. Maro used to try mollifying UB detractors (which, again, I was not among) by telling them that UB was purely additive, that it wasn't taking away anything they love, only giving something to other fans. The last time he used that line was less than a week before the announcement that actually no, it literally was taking stuff away now. One of the most long-awaited returns shoved back so they can push more and more Marvel slop in our faces, and a yearly plan to cut down on actual Magic releases in favour of more UB. Less than a week. There is no way in the nine hells he didn't know about this when he tried telling people it was "purely additive", so how is that anything but an actual factual bald-faced lie? An attempt to briefly pacify complainers in the hopes that they'd grow numb enough to accept it before this announcement came? How can we trust a single word anyone at WotC says on the matter now?
If people want Spiderman, they can get Spiderman. Marvel is god damn EVERYWHERE. Thirteen movies every month, twenty eight TV shows every week, games, merch - I hear they're even printing comics now. But if they want to explore Bloomburrow, or see what Jace is up to, or discover (or rediscover) what happened to the Eldrazi, there is one and only one place they can go to for that. And WotC has just announced that they're shrinking that space in favour of pushing even MORE. DAMN. SPIDERMAN.
welp, i’ve been looking to get into cube making for a while and this announcement seems to be a pretty good motivator to start. any good resources out there you’d recommend?
I'd recommend the catalog of the (now defunct) 540 podcast, as well as Ryan Overturf's SCG articles
Heya, been keeping an eye on cube for the last 4-5 years. First and foremost, check out cubecobra.com, it's the list-sharing site & also directs you to other resources such as podcasts and articles. Solely Singleton is excellent (though crass) for getting your feet in the water. They are the most basic cube podcast imo. Check out their starter/miser cube episodes, the rest are relatively disregard-able.
Lucky Paper Radio is the premier podcast for cube, they attempt to highlight cube (in stark contrast to solely singleton) as more than just a set of 360 or 450 cards, but rather utilizing the game pieces/engine to create your own radical experience.
If you just want general draft pointers, which might help highlight play patterns you enjoy, Lords of Limited release a weekly, standard draft-focused podcast.
gl;hf!
I googled lots of different things to try and figure out what to do. I picked 10 multicolour supporting archtypes and stuck in my favourite cards to support it. Honestly? Just pick something that sounds cool and try building around it.
It is indeed the serpent eating its own tail. Just look at how Magic started and what Rhystic Studies itself described in the video about flavor text. TLDR Magic had to stop using quotations from literature as flavor text because it had to establish its own identity. Today the literature as flavor text has become IP's as full on sets of cards. Early Magic had to grow its own identity. Now Magic's identity is getting swallowed by its own growth (the certain six letter c word comes to mind).
Perhaps that is just inevitability. If so I think its time that Magic R&D stands up against it. Before it all snaps, that is.
The entire core of the article, which you did not read, addresses your handwave. It is almost as if, making the game a vehicle for other IP's and putting its own IP on the backburner is solipsistic.
I truly can't wait to cast my 4BB Sephiroth that edicts on summon, or my 2WR Cloud that summons a "Buster Blade" equipment that equips on summon. Then I can't wait to cast Spiderman for 2R who on summon taps(or even stuns) target creature.
Man it will be so cool to see the Finalfantasy deck versus the spiderman deck. How many spidermen do you think a meta spiderman deck will have? I imagine it has atleast 4x of 3 different spidermen; can't neglect to have all of the 340343 versions of him from the comics and surely atleast 3 of them will be good in an archetype together.
It is 100% correct to talk negatively to people who have the idea of "hah imagine getting mad that someone might like a thing". It's a thoughtless take. People like all sorts of things that are contemptable.
Universes Beyond is the worst of the modern amalgamation of "Nerd Culture". It's literally "heres slop you'll like we mixed with other slop you like, eat up piggies".
This won't kill magic, but it surely is a mortal wound to its integrity.
k troll
Very thought evoking; please actually refute what I have said. Just waving something off is a braindead maneuver.
only thing "braindead" and "contemptible" here are your lame-ass posts, i gave your pathetic elitist gatekeeping screed exactly as much respect as it deserved.
Magic's "integrity" died long ago.
Magic is dead. Long live Magic™️!
The analogy of Magic to Funko Pops was perfect. It’s such a shame that a game with such a rich history, and basis in incredible art has been sold at the auction block to the cheapest buyer.
I don’t know how anyone can defend the management at WOTC anymore, these people don’t care about the brand. It’s the cult of personality and they’ve all drank the “we’re the best” kool-aid. Im truly curious if anyone on the inside even challenges these ideas.
It seems I’m beset by rampant corporate greed with whatever nerd hobby I indulge in, but at least when I play 40K I don’t have to play against the collaboration Mario army. Somehow they manage to continually invest in their brand and not against it.
I don’t see Magic completely dying off, but I do see its relevancy and impact diminishing heavily in the coming years. Maybe that’s a good thing.
You think for 2 seconds if Warhammer could get licensing for these other IP's at reasonable Long term rates they wouldn't do the exact same thing??? Oh man...
If you think for two seconds games workshop would print Spider-Man into 40K you’re clearly disillusioned with the hobby. They are the complete and total #1 in wargaming and it’s not close. In fact marvel has their own tabletop game, and crazily enough it’s not even remotely a threat to GWs market share, because they have built up and maintained a strong setting with continuous work, NOT by giving other companies advertising pieces within their game system.
I’ve had to accept that this isn’t the game I fell in love with anymore. I actually like UB stuff, that’s the sad thing, but having no way to escape it, having it in every single format and now half of all releases puts me into a place where I have no faith in the game anymore.
I want to love the story of magic, I want to care about its characters, and all I’m seeing is reason to fear there won’t be any soon. My best guess? They’ll wipe all the planes away with a story, push UB till the world doesn’t care about that novelty, then reboot the story like comics do. But am I willing to stay through it all? I don’t know.
Frankly, I've given up on the story long ago. I got into the game around Time Spiral and the story and worldbuilding quality was mostly great until Innistrad. But by mid 2010s everything started completely revolving around the same crew of planeswalkers saving the multiverse from the Existential Threat of the Week. Previously unstoppable Eldrazi were defeated with the power of friendship and lasers, Phyrexians showed remarkable strategic genius by attacking all planes at once, planeswalkers came back from the dead... There's no stakes anymore, and every "Return to X" set is mostly meh.
Since Wizards dropped the block structure and cranked release frequency to 11, there's no space for a story to evolve, it's all one endless spoiler season, as though they're afraid we'll forget the game if they stop the printer for a minute.
You could say it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, to get more money they changed from blocks to a wider set of planes, leading to people becoming detached from the characters, which led to their gimmick of UB becoming their crutch. Funny thing about a crutch though, it can save your life, but become dependent on it for too long and it will make you weaker.
Maybe if they would expand the world of magic:
Make a Comic, Make a Animated Series, Make a Video Game in the World of MTG.
People would know there is a story going on.
I've played magic for 14 years and not till everyone started crying about "UB IS RUINING THE STORY" did i even know there WAS a story!
I play magic becuase It's a GOOD CARD GAME, not becuase I'm married to the characters or the story.
It's a Solid CARD GAME with GOOD MECHANICS. No Art Style or Inclusion of other IPs will ever change the fact that IT PLAYS WELL.
The Draw of MTG (to me) is that:
I can get off my computer go meet some people and play a game with them.
Human Social Interaction. That's the most importat aspect of MTG in my life.
Now with UB Sets I have friends that would never even LOOK at magic cards playing becuase they were like "What's this new Assassins creed game you've got", or "hey what's this LOTR box you've got?"
Players who either would have never tried magic or even looked at magic got interetested and my base of friends who play MTG has grown, Significantly, Due to UB. It gives you cool cards to talk about and makes the game RELATABLE to players who don't know a thing about MTG.
I’m actually a fan of UB stuff to be honest, like the stuff next year has me excited. I just think having it in every format is a step too far, having a space where it doesn’t show up is nice for the times when someone wants that. Beyond cube and niche formats few have heard of there’s no real way to play magic without UB now.
Edit: forgot to say I agree with the main reason to play magic being social, end of the day I’d be happy to sub it out for anything that gets me to hang with people the same way.
Thank you for voicing my opinions.
I don't think Magic will ever die die, at least not anytime soon, but spiritually I think it's dead. Probably has been for a while, really. I've been out of the game for a little while now but with outside IP now encroaching on the previously sacred Standard card pool (and by extension, my favorite format Pioneer) I don't see myself ever coming back in earnest. Aside from cubing, cube is the best, and you should all get into it.
I have been playing since i was 12, im 35 right now, at first the lore captivated me because it was so unique, every plane has something to offer, the mechanics were in tune with the planes and they felt like part of a whole identity. Now with the ips they feel like a medium age crisis, some like lotr feel in tune with a plane of magic not to mention D&D, even the ones like warhammer worked because there was variety in the races of such universe. But in the case of doctor who, dont seem to translate as naturaly as other ips, the same for fallout and now marvel. I really hate secret lairs but until now i find a purpose as expensive skins in an already expensive game, but now a whole expansion of spiderman? I like spiderman but i dont feel it as deserve to share the "Magic" name, why dont the change the name only as "the gathering" because rite now is a gathering of nonsense ips. Maybe in the lore of marvel there are elves, elementals, demons and other fantasy elements, but all seem to be centered in a "human" theme.
I like that magic its now popular, but i hate thats popular for its crossovers rather than the lore of the original game. Magic lore ended when the phyrexian crisis was met with an anticlimatic ending, when they feared to kill other planeswalkers.
I've been playing since 14 (34 now) Not until people started crying about Walking Dead did I even know ther was a story to MTG... It's not like they do a good job advertising that fact or giving you anything to go on besides maybe a line of lore text on the cards.
Print a book, a comic, make a video game, tv series, animated shorts. Do ANYTHING to promote the universe of MTG cause I swear unless you go looking for it, it is not delivered to you.
This is the atraction of UB to ME! i get to play with cards where I DO know the story and the characters and the background and so forth... It's cool.
This is the atraction of UB to ME! i get to play with cards where I DO know the story and the characters and the background and so forth... It's cool.
Look, you already won. Let us who lost something mourn it a little.
You are getting what you want. The folks who are not are complaining. If in 3 years WotC announces "UB was a mistake and we're not doing it anymore" I promise you I will not be going into articles talking about how sad that is to explain why it's actually awesome.
I get that you're frustrated by the negativity here, but you won't have to be for much longer, because the people who have overwhelmingly negative feelings about this aren't going to play the game anymore. At least not in any context where you'd ever encounter them at FNM.
The game died for me when commander became #1. That is not how I like to play magic. But I always had an inkling I'd come back some day. Now the thing I'd want to come back to resembles what I loved even less, so I don't think I will.
You're fully allowed to like this, it's just... you're commenting on something that you have fully, 100% gotten what you wanted out of it. People not being happy about this change doesn't make the change not happen.
Sad thing is, we've lost. Universes Beyond sells like hotcakes and WotC doesn't care about anything beyond whatever makes it the most money.
Great article! I truly do love magic and the world it has created. I have been a vorthos for years and year but they seem determined to take away the part of magic that was special to me.
Nothing feels off the table. The only reason why I can't see a hot wheels crossover in the death race set is because they're owned by a direct competitor. Richard Garfield but it's Garfield the cat is a possibility. The Cthulhu set feels like an inevitability.
Oddly, because much of Lovecraft's stories are already public domain (and I think the rest are plausibly in the public domain too), Wizards could just make a Cthulhu set without having to "collaborate" with anyone. Though it would be hard to come up with an artistic rendition of Cthulhu that doesn't rub up against art owned by Chaosium.